Curse

Firebaall · Jun 19, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

lol @ all the people whining for double dipping.

Deal with it. You don't deserve to get retro compensated. It's a new feature, move forward with it, not whine about what you could have gotten back in the day.

**cosyfiep** · Jun 19, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

ok the argument that I dont understand from the posters here is: before the update I turned in my faction for jade/amber and I could sell it....well guess what I can STILL turn in my faction and get jade/amber and sell it, but now I also get alliance (?) points for getting that jade/amber.
So my problem is if they make it retro what harm would it do, yes I turned in my points for gems....and may have sold them or whatever----that has not changed!!! I can still do it now!
So why cant we get the points retro (like the did for cartographer) since factions is more than a year old and not that many people who arent part of some alliance are going to want to grind out faction points for these new skills.

Not that I really want any of these skills, but if I did---I still wouldnt want to grind out faction to get them!

mashi909 · Jun 19, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

about people who gave faction to their guild and made fat cash due to discount prices is just retarded thinking. how many alliances that have faction actually control towns? I bet the there are a ton more alliance with faction that don't control towns that those that do.

ok, so the systems is unfair right now, and making it retroactive won't make it any more balanced either. people either lose time or money.

my question is, what about those that didn't give to their guild nor got/sold amber. Sure I made 30k or so selling it at 2k, but after it hit 700 gold or so it just wasn't worth it to grind for faction. Instead i farmed greens, all i got from that was money. If i had known about the skills, i definitely would have done either of the two. But either way, as it is now or making it retroactive, people like me just get boned hardcore.

so no matter what, at least one type of person gets the shaft. even if they make a brand new track that starts everyone at zero, those faction farmed and have to skills at good ranks now will be pissed because they will lose that.

the lesser of the evils would be to make a new title, since nobody would be able to complain about unfair advantage, he has them and i dont, blah blah.

Oh, and no matter what, the current title that the skills are tied to should be changed. I took my tyrian ranger throught NF, didn't farm a bit for sunspear rank (this was after they removed the sunspear general req) and I ended up getting rank 7 sunspear, not bad. On the otherhand, if go through factions, even now, and hell ill be generous and say i farm for one of the 15k armors, that will give 70k faction towards my title, not even rank 1. that's total bullshit.

Patrick Smit · Jun 19, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

ok the argument that I dont understand from the posters here is: before the update I turned in my faction for jade/amber and I could sell it....well guess what I can STILL turn in my faction and get jade/amber and sell it, but now I also get alliance (?) points for getting that jade/amber.
So my problem is if they make it retro what harm would it do, yes I turned in my points for gems....and may have sold them or whatever----that has not changed!!! I can still do it now!
So why cant we get the points retro (like the did for cartographer) since factions is more than a year old and not that many people who arent part of some alliance are going to want to grind out faction points for these new skills.

Not that I really want any of these skills, but if I did---I still wouldnt want to grind out faction to get them!

Cartographer was not retroeactive, its thre mechanims that counts the amount of pixels explored of the map, not that you have actually been around there after the title was activated. The argument that that was retroactive doesn't hold (IMO). The same for protector titles, you would have gained it immeadiately if you would have don the missions and bonusses before and you wouldn't have to redo them, nothing retroactive about that, its just the mechnism of how the totle works Skill hunter idem dito.

Niila · Jun 19, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Nice, amount of grind just got cut down to half.

But now people who farmed factions for title just got quite screwed up.

Pwny Ride · Jun 19, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mashi909

people either lose time or money.

ahem, no. People gain, they loose nothing. Even the donators gain some by using the formula i posted. mkay?

Why havent A-net commented on this? (in particular Gaile)

watrah · Jun 19, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

can any one answer this how much time it take you to get the first rank?

Takeko Nakano · Jun 19, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

But now people who farmed factions for title just got quite screwed up.

Nonsense, because to benefit from the new system you still need to play games that give faction. So everyone benefits.

Niila · Jun 19, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Nonsense, because to benefit from the new system you still need to play games that give faction. So everyone benefits.

Correct.

What I meant was that you now get the double faction to your title from donating (which is very nice imo) but people who already maxed their titles farmed like 5 million too much as the rules were changed once again.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 19, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

We all made choices along the way; Give to a Guild or Alliance or Give to Ourselves. Those who chose to buy jade or amber got something in return for it, either money or good armor. Those who gave to Guild or Alliance were working for a title and they earned that. We made our choices and we all have to live with what we chose. I donated 95% of my faction to the Guild, I have no desire for ANET to retroactively give me amber to compensate for my choice. I will live with my choice and so should everyone else.

greenthumb · Jun 19, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

We all made choices along the way; Give to a Guild or Alliance or Give to Ourselves. Those who chose to buy jade or amber got something in return for it, either money or good armor. Those who gave to Guild or Alliance were working for a title and they earned that. We made our choices and we all have to live with what we chose. I donated 95% of my faction to the Guild, I have no desire for ANET to retroactively give me amber to compensate for my choice. I will live with my choice and so should everyone else.

I don't think anyone really has an issue with that. It has little to nothing to do with living with choices made by players.

The issue are the new skills and their benefits, not the prior choices made by players. In any event, I don't think much is going to be done on this issue other than the recent update.

Just out of curiosity, because of those choices you made previously, do you think you're entitled to the new skills and the respective level of effectiveness, or are you just lucky in those skills being tied to a title that you happened to work on? Just wondering.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 19, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenthumb

I don't think anyone really has an issue with that. It has little to nothing to do with living with choices made by players.

The issue are the new skills and their benefits, not the prior choices made by players. In any event, I don't think much is going to be done on this issue other than the recent update.

Just out of curiosity, because of those choices you made previously, do you think you're entitled to the new skills and the respective level of effectiveness, or are you just lucky in those skills being tied to a title that you happened to work on? Just wondering.

Probably lucky, but I could just as well decided to go for the amber and would have been ok with that also.

greenthumb · Jun 19, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Probably lucky, but I could just as well decided to go for the amber and would have been ok with that also.

Personally, I didn't earn all that much faction, so I'm not that affected either way, but for those that did, I can imagine it being painful. The group that is lucky should appreciate their good fortune. I can understand that they don't want their hard-earned titles to be diluted, but the corresponding demands for amber and jade do seem unappreciative of their good fortune and downright petty.

Kelsey Cain · Jun 19, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

One of the key differences here is the fact that the game has the information it needs stored already.

If a new title is introduced that for instance counts the number of a particular species you kill, you can't be retrospectively awarded kills towards the title because the mechanics were never in place.

Where the information does exist however, I believe a retrospective count should be made - When the survivor title was introduced (something which the game had kept track of) was that previously useless recorded information used? Yes it was - "sorry you have died, no you can't progress any further"

Same should apply here.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 19, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelsey Cain

One of the key differences here is the fact that the game has the information it needs stored already.

If a new title is introduced that for instance counts the number of a particular species you kill, you can't be retrospectively awarded kills towards the title because the mechanics were never in place.

Where the information does exist however, I believe a retrospective count should be made - When the survivor title was introduced (something which the game had kept track of) was that previously useless recorded information used? Yes it was - "sorry you have died, no you can't progress any further"

Same should apply here.

Why should you get the title when you made a choice not to go for it originally. I have over 250,000 faction should I also be given appropriate amount of amber that I would have earned, I think not. Choices were made and things in game change and you live with your choices.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
Ben Franklin

Gli · Jun 19, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Fair games don't change the rules on you while they're in progress. Mechanics is one thing, but rules is something else.

"I'm sorry, you're suddenly 22 points behind instead of just 4. We just decided that home-runs count for 10. Try harder and don't whine."

You don't see that happening in sports, do you?

bilateralrope · Jun 19, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Why should you get the title when you made a choice not to go for it originally. I have over 250,000 faction should I also be given appropriate amount of amber that I would have earned, I think not. Choices were made and things in game change and you live with your choices.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
Ben Franklin

Because when we chose to not go for the title it was completely useless, so we made the logical choice of going for something that would give an actual benefit. But now that its much more useful than the gold from the amber/jade would be, we are pissed because ANET decided to punish us for making the logical choice by giving a benefit to the people who didn't.

The Legg · Jun 19, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Because when we chose to not go for the title it was completely useless, so we made the logical choice of going for something that would give an actual benefit. But now that its much more useful than the gold from the amber/jade would be, we are pissed because ANET decided to punish us for making the logical choice by giving a benefit to the people who didn't.

And how exactly are anet punishing those of you that went for the jade/amber instead of donnating to your guild? You made the choice to go for the cash and now you have to live with it.

I must admit, at first I was all for the retroactive addtion to our titles, but now after reading through this post all I seem to see are people whinning becasue they were greedy and wante the money instead of working on the title.

Well now it has changed and some would say that finally they are being given a reward for working on these long, and for some, grueling titles. But oh no, that wont suit the greedy, self centered whiners here will it. They got the best deal money wise when they were getting the rare materials, and now its an absolute outrage that they shouldn't be given their title now.

Oh please.

Now the formula mentioned on previous pages does have some merit and is refreshing to see people actually wanting to think about this situation and come up with positive solutions instead of just calling for blanket changes. Sure it would make them happy, but hell, thats all they seem to care about anyway.

And I am sure the anet dev team feel the same way.

bilateralrope · Jun 19, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legg

And how exactly are anet punishing those of you that went for the jade/amber instead of donnating to your guild? You made the choice to go for the cash and now you have to live with it.

By excluding them from the same rewards as the people going for the title have. Before the update both groups were happy with the rewards they received, but now one group gets a large benefit that the other group doesn't have despite both groups putting in equal work.

Allowing people to exchange for amber/jade and the title probably made things worse because its saying "All that work you put in before doesn't count. However if you do it all over again it will".

Currently I'm thinking that the easiest way for ANET to fix it is for the title to work off the higher of the faction earned or the number the title currently works on. Previously I just thought to work it off faction earned, but then ANET made alliance donations double points meaning the faction earned will become smaller than the title value for most people.

Though going over the database and giving everyone the highest of those two numbers once and then letting things proceed as normal would also work.

Pwny Ride · Jun 19, 2007, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legg

And how exactly are anet punishing those of you that went for the jade/amber instead of donnating to your guild? You made the choice to go for the cash and now you have to live with it.

The only thing we're trying to point out is~

We where, as players never aware of the implementations of the PvE faction skills.

If we where we would have taken the path to donation, but we where not interested in the titles,and in stead being able to get some decent armor, which is, i remind you, not a necessity, a requirement to be able to play the game comfortably.

The fact that the power of the skills is dictated by your rank in the luxon/kurzick titles is where it goes wrong.

P.S~ thanks for reading the formula